94 comments

  • woopwoop 5 hours ago ago

    Last time I flew Delta they no longer had this bot, which made me sad. One of my favorite parts of flying was getting absolutely crushed into a tiny cube by the airplane seat's easy chess bot, and then again by the airplane seat itself when the person in front of me reclines their seat.

    • mrandish 3 hours ago ago

      > then again by the airplane seat itself when the person in front of me reclines their seat.

      This reminds me of the time I had my laptop open on the tilt-down tray and the very large man in the seat in front just repositioned his girth (not even reclining the seat) but it flexed the seat back enough that my laptop screen was momentarily caught between the tray below and recessed lip above and was almost crushed.

      • sejje 2 hours ago ago

        Gorilla glass vs gorilla

      • neal_jones 2 hours ago ago

        Opened a laptop on my last flight and this was my immediate and persistent fear

      • bink 2 hours ago ago

        I swear this happens to me almost every time I fly.

      • jack_pp 2 hours ago ago

        now you know to check who's sitting in front of you. rookie mistake

    • kazinator 41 minutes ago ago

      Some low cost airlines no longer have anything. A small fold-out tray to hold your tablet. There is Wi-Fi to access an intranet with flight information and maybe some entertainment. If you have that, you just load it up with games from your play store.

    • johnyzee 4 hours ago ago

      The only winning move is not to play.

      • lapetitejort 4 hours ago ago

        How about a nice trip on a train?

        • shermantanktop 3 hours ago ago

          Depends. How’s the Amtrak chess bot?

          • bink 2 hours ago ago

            Underfunded and constantly side-tracked by cargo bots.

          • runarberg 5 minutes ago ago

            I think the Amtrak way is to bring a physical chess board and challenge human strangers over a nice cup of coffee in the observation car.

        • dyauspitr 3 hours ago ago

          I don’t have 5 days to travel across the country.

          • farialima 3 hours ago ago

            - it’s 3 days not 5 (e.g leaving NYC Wednesday morning arriving SF Saturday evening)

            - the internet connection is excellent (even in most tunnels) so you can work, have video meetings, etc, not to mention play chess online

            • squeaky-clean 2 hours ago ago

              That's 4 days traveling. Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday. Arriving in the evening doesn't mean you didn't spend that day traveling.

            • amypetrik214 41 minutes ago ago

              - the internet connection is excellent

              I mean, maybe you had a different experience. In my experience in the northeast , the internet service is about as reliable and consistent as the trains themselves (ie not consistent, garbage fire)

            • dyauspitr 2 hours ago ago

              Let’s be realistic. I love long distance train journeys, but mainly for recreation. Being on a train for 3-5 days is pretty exhausting no matter how comfortable. I’ve done the 30 day Amtrak pass before and it was fantastic but I wouldn’t be looking forward to that if it was a work trip where I want to fly in and then get back to my family as fast as possible. There’s no way that can compare to a 5-6 hour flight+2 hours at the airport.

            • esseph an hour ago ago

              If you're not traveling between those specific destinations it can take far, far longer. Amtrak is a joke.

            • CursedSilicon 2 hours ago ago

              I was rather disappointed by the internet connection on the Cascades line (going Seattle --> Portland and back). As far as I could tell, they use T-Mobile for backhaul. Who are headquartered in Seattle. Yet the connection barely seemed to work for about half of the journey

          • mattnewton 3 hours ago ago

            This wouldn’t bother me as much but it’s really like 5-7 days depending on freight use of the lines and they can’t tell you ahead of time what it’s going to be somehow?

          • dostick 2 hours ago ago

            Why not trei a holiday in Sweden this yër? See the loveli lakes.

          • nimih 3 hours ago ago

            Skill issue, imo.

    • nimski 5 hours ago ago

      bravo

  • nomilk 39 minutes ago ago

    There's a bug in the Delta Air Lines chess program. After cxd6 en passant, the captured pawn isn't removed [0]. White's bishop is then able to check the black king through the pawn (the pawn that should have been removed) [1].

    [0] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nyov4F7eWbT8uNoeclPY8uXVG6f...

    [1] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eEPBHqE5rpefE9gWflgS_hUwYGS...

    • teraflop 22 minutes ago ago

      I guess it's just a display bug, then? Though it's hard to imagine what kind of bug would lead the game state and the visual representation to get out of sync in that particular way.

  • AnotherGoodName 5 hours ago ago

    I wonder if they gave the chess bot X seconds of thinking time in an era when computers were slower?

    The way you set difficulty for turn based game ai is that you limit how far ahead the algorithm searches. If you set the lookahead based on compute time your difficulties will be way out of line if someone upgrades the CPU.

    • Telemakhos 5 hours ago ago

      Something similar happened to the macOS chess game, which has always been bundled with OSX/macOS. Once upon a time it was easy to beat in easy mode, which restricted how long it could thing in advance.

      When Big Sur rolled out around 2020, Apple introduced a bug which disabled the difficulty slider: no matter what it was set to, it was hard or impossible to beat. In macOS Sequoia, the Chess app got updated again, and supposedly they fixed the difficulty slider, but in the interval silicon improved so much that the old restraints (like think for only a second) mean little. The lowest levels play like a grand master.

      • microtherion an hour ago ago

        Heh, I was just discussing this some minutes ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46595777

      • mh2266 3 hours ago ago

        is there some reason to implement it as a time limit instead of iterations or something else deterministic? it being affected by CPU speed or machine load seems obvious.

        or whatever makes sense if “iterations” isn’t a thing, I know nothing about chess algorithms

        • twoodfin 3 hours ago ago

          It’s simpler. Chess is a search through the space of possible moves, looking for a move that’s estimated to be better than the best move you’ve seen so far.

          The search is by depth of further moves, and “better” is a function of heuristics (explicit or learned) on the resulting board positions, because most of the time you can’t be sure a move will inevitably result in a win or a loss.

          So any particular move evaluation might take more or less time before the algorithm gives up on it—or chooses it as the new winner. To throw a consistent amount of compute at each move, the simple thing to do is give the engine consistent amounts of time per move.

        • microtherion an hour ago ago

          A time limit is also deterministic in some sense. Level settings used to be mainly time based, because computers at lower settings were no serious competition to decent players, but you don't necessarily want to wait for 30 seconds each move, so there were more casual and more serious levels.

          Limiting the search depth is much more deterministic. At lower levels, it has hilarious results, and is pretty good at emulating beginning players (who know the rules, but have a limited skill of calculating moves ahead).

          One problem with fixed search depth is that I think most good engines prefer to use dynamic search depth (where they sense that some positions need to be searched a bit deeper to reach a quiescent point), so they will be handicapped with a fix depth.

    • Nition an hour ago ago

      Alternatively, since there's only one difficulty provided ("easy"), I wondered if the programmer have selected say, DifficultyLevels array index 0 meaning the easiest, but it was actually sorted hardest first.

    • gowld 4 hours ago ago
      • Sohcahtoa82 an hour ago ago

        Naming it the "Turbo" button rather than making "turbo mode" the default and then pressing a button for "slow" mode, IMO, was marketing genius, even though the results are the same.

        Blizzard did a similar thing in World of Warcraft during the beta. After playing for a while, your character would get "exhausted" and start earning half experience for killing mobs. The only way to stop being exhausted would be to log off or spend a LONG time in an inn. At some point, they flipped the script. They made the "exhausted" state the default, and while offline or in an inn, you would gain a "rested" experience buffer, where you would earn double experience.

        The mechanic worked exactly the same, but by giving it different terms, players felt rewarded for stepping away from the game occasionally, rather than punished for playing too long. They also marketed it as a way of giving players a way to "catch up" after spending a day or two offline.

  • markgall 5 hours ago ago

    Is this really true? I played a few games with it in August. It's not very good.

    It's one of those old programs where 95% of the moves are pretty strong. But if you just do nothing and sit back it will occasionally make a random blunder and then you grind it out. I figured it's how they were able to weaken a chess engine back in the day; can't adjust the overall strength, so add random blunders.

    I'm only about 2000 on lichess but I beat it pretty much every time, especially once I realized there is no reason to try anything sharp.

    • strstr 5 hours ago ago

      My suspicion is that the bot was a fairly standard chess bot, but the difficulties were set based on computation time. As airplane computers got better, it turned into a beast.

      As a result, if you tried this on older planes, it might have been “easier”

      • monster_truck an hour ago ago

        One of my first paid iOS dev jobs was porting a Go game from iPad to iPhone, don't even think the 4 was out yet. It also used computation time based difficulties. By the time I was done writing it, I knew a few tricks I could eke a win out with on 19x19.

        When the iPhone 5S came out, I tried it on a whim to check the UI scaling etc... the beginner difficulty on a 9x9 board deleted me. It was grabbing something like 64x more samples per go, the lowest difficulty on the 5S (instant responses) never lost a single game vs the highest difficulty 3GS (15 second turns)

        iPhones had a lot of moments like that. Silly bullshit like "what if every pixel was a cell in a collection view" would go from "oh it can barely do 128" to "more responsive than that was, with 2 million" in a few gens.

      • throwaway6977 4 hours ago ago

        Chess on M series Macs has the same issue. Even level 1 is easily 2000+ Elo because of the same thing.

        • microtherion an hour ago ago

          Oh, this led me down a rabbit hole…

          I was maintainer of the Chess app from the early 2000s to about 2015. We first noticed in 2004 that level 1 (which was then "Computer thinks for 1 second per move) was getting stronger with each hardware generation (and in fact stronger than myself).

          So we introduced 3 new levels, with the Computer thinking 1, 2, or 3 moves ahead. This solved the problem of the engine getting stronger (though the jump from "3 moves ahead" to "1 second" got worse and worse).

          A few years after I had handed off the project, somebody decided to meddle with the level setting code (I was not privy to that decision). The time based levels were entirely replaced with depth based levels (which eliminates the strength inflation problem, but unfortunately was not accompanied by UI changes). But for some reason, parsing of the depth setting was broken as well, so the engine now always plays at depth 40 (stronger than ever).

          This should be an easy fix, if Apple gets around to make it (Chess was always a side project for the maintainers). I filed feedback report 21609379.

          It seems that somebody else had already discovered this and fixed it in a fork of the open source project: https://github.com/aglee/Chess/commit/dfb16b3f32e5a6633d2119...

        • hinkley 4 hours ago ago

          I found a used copy of Warcraft 3 at the store about ten years after it came out, proudly brought it home, fired it up and didn’t recall the graphics being quite that awful, but the first time I tried to scroll the map sideways it shot to the far end because they didn’t build a timing loop onto the animation and I shut it down, disappointed.

          Unfortunately they never released a remastered version of it. They seem to have made some clone of it called “reforged” whatever the fuck that means.

          • jasonwatkinspdx 4 hours ago ago

            Yeah, Reforged was received very poorly so they basically end of life'd the franchise.

            There is a thriving community with a couple different choices for servers to play on. So I'm sure there's a fix for your mouse speed issue.

            Check Twitch for people streaming it: https://www.twitch.tv/directory/category/warcraft-iii

            Grubby, one of the early esports stars, still streams it regularly and hosts his own for fun tournaments with other streamers.

            • SOLAR_FIELDS 2 hours ago ago

              Reforged was received poorly because it was a lazy half assed job that was a blatant cash grab. Not because culturally we have moved on and the game has aged beyond being fun

              You probably knew this, but wanted to make sure others knew that the reason they ended the franchise is not because there was no market, but instead it was pure unadulterated greed that led to that situation. In an alternate reality they would have actually done the remake justice and there would be a lively competitive scene

              • pixelpoet an hour ago ago

                Sorry for the aside but,

                > SOLAR_FIELDS

                Panoramic Greetings!

          • bombcar 3 hours ago ago

            There are various hacks and tools for games (especially DOS games, but for W3 there may exist the same) which delayloop various calls to slow things down enough "to work".

            The Dolphin emulator has run into similar things; usually doing things "too fast" just gets you more FPS but sometimes it causes the game to go insane.

            • the_af 11 minutes ago ago

              Also, some DOS games were coded so that they ran correctly no matter the speed of the hardware, like Alley Cat :)

          • droptablemain 2 hours ago ago

            This is pretty much the experience of trying to play any game from the '90s on modern hardware. It always requires a bit of tinkering and usually a patch from the modding community. Funniest one I've found is Fallout Tactics. The random encounter frequency is somehow tied to clock speed so you'll basically get hit with random encounters during map travel about once every half second.

            • usefulcat 2 hours ago ago

              I've been enjoying Total Annihilation since 1997. Still works fine on fairly modern hardware with Windows 11. No modifications other than some additional maps that I downloaded decades ago.

              • droptablemain 33 minutes ago ago

                Interesting. Assuming it did not use DirectDraw -- that's often a major pain point.

          • the_af 13 minutes ago ago

            > they didn’t build a timing loop onto the animation

            Wow.

            1984 (!!!) IBM PC (DOS) port of the game Alley Cat had timings built it. They actually used the system clock if I remember correctly, so it would always run at the correct pace no matter how fast the computer. Last I checked it, decades later, it still ran at the correct speed!

            I guess some lessons don't get passed on?

          • afandian 2 hours ago ago

            I think it means gcc -O0

          • psunavy03 3 hours ago ago

            The original Wing Commander was like that. Playable on 286s/386s, then Pentiums and beyond showed up and it was unplayable. The game started in the "simulator" to show you the controls, and you'd get blown out of space in about 0.5 seconds.

            • the_af 8 minutes ago ago

              The original Wing Commander brings back memories! I remember being amazed by the graphics and the story.

              These days I cannot stand games with cliched storyline and tend to skip the cutscenes, but back then it all seemed so amazing... like a cross between a movie and a game.

              I remember playing it later and running into speed issues too, but usually there was a way to tweak the emulator in order to fix this.

            • Terr_ 2 hours ago ago

              Oh man, I remember that: on a newer computer, I'd tap the left arrow to turn and the Hornet would do a 360.

              I suppose, technically, that's one way to make the Scimitar feel more responsive...

        • monster_truck an hour ago ago

          AFAIK the only reason Chess even ships at all anymore is as a burn utility. They'll set it to AI vs AI at max difficulty to stress the system and make sure the cooling/power management works.

          • microtherion an hour ago ago

            Never heard that one (it may indeed be used that way, but if it were the only reason Apple would probably keep it in the Apple internal parts of their OS installs).

            It would also be of limited use, as the engine is purely CPU based; it is single threaded and does not even use SIMD AFAIK, let alone GPU features or the neural engines.

    • lurk2 an hour ago ago

      > I'm only about 2000 on lichess

      That puts you in the top 7% of players on the site. I have a hard time believing you could get to that rating without knowing that.

    • Uehreka an hour ago ago

      > I figured it's how they were able to weaken a chess engine back in the day; can't adjust the overall strength, so add random blunders.

      In tom7’s Elo World, he does this (“dilutes” strong Chess AIs with a certain percentage of random moves) to smooth the gradient since otherwise it would be impossible to evaluate his terrible chess bots against something like Stockfish since they’d just lose every time. https://youtu.be/DpXy041BIlA?si=z7g1a_TX_QoPYN9b

    • sbrother 4 hours ago ago

      1. Uh, isn't 2000 like extremely fucking good?

      2. I played a chess bot on Delta on easy and it was really bad, felt like random moves. I beat it trivially and I am actually bad at chess, ~1000 on chess.com. I wonder if this one is different?

      • bluedino 20 minutes ago ago

        I wonder if it's different on different planes? I can easily beat my friend and he won a few games on a flight, I played on a different flight and got crushed for two hours straight. I'm probably 1400-ish

      • NewsaHackO 3 hours ago ago

        Yeah, he just casually said he had an elo that high, as if that doesn't blow 90% of people out of the water.

      • umanwizard 4 hours ago ago

        Note that 2000 on lichess is probably weaker than 2000 on chess.com (or USCF or FIDE)

        • dmuino 4 hours ago ago

          That's true, I'm 2050-2100 lichess, around 1800 on chess.com. Never played a rated tournament but played some rated players who were 1400-1500 rated USCF, and they were roughly my strength, maybe a bit better. Still the Delta bot, easy mode, was much, much better than me.

          • fragmede 2 hours ago ago

            Casually just in the top 2-3 percent of chess players globally world wide humble brag. I'm not that good at it, just a little bit!

        • citrus1330 2 hours ago ago

          It's still significantly stronger than the average online chess player

  • tmathmeyer 5 hours ago ago

    Not only is the delta chessbot bad (My low 1600s lichess-elo self can win handily every single time against any difficulty, white or black), but there's also a sequence of moves I found which deterministically causes the game to crash. I should probably record it next time I'm on a flight.

    • dmuino 4 hours ago ago

      I'm 2100 rapid on lichess, 2050 blitz and bullet. I got destroyed every single time I played the easy mode version on Delta. It knew opening theory. It did not blunder a single time in the middle game. I never made it to an end game.

    • mvkel 4 hours ago ago

      There's only one difficulty setting

  • conartist6 4 hours ago ago

    There used to be a chess program in windows 3.1 that would destroy me every time. Not that I was very good, of course! But I think if you just code the known opening books it's not too hard to make a bot that requires a skilled player to beat.

  • tromp 3 hours ago ago

    Sometimes the airlines chess app gives you the option to play another passenger, but even after waiting for half an hour I've never been hooked up with another player. Has anyone else been able to?

    • chrisfosterelli 2 hours ago ago

      Yes, as someone who is usually flying with my GF, I love this feature! Unfortunately air canada's implementation is abysmal and anytime there is a pilot announcement it interrupts the game long enough to break the network connection and cause it to end the game.

    • tantalor 3 hours ago ago

      The best part about this is sneaking a look at your opponents screen if you are lucky enough to sit behind them.

      • cheeze 2 hours ago ago

        Does this... help with chess?

        • Nition an hour ago ago

          I think that might have been the joke.

        • fragmede 2 hours ago ago

          you can see the possible moves they're thinking of making

          • 4d4m a few seconds ago ago

            Super fun

    • nightpool 3 hours ago ago

      It only works with passengers on your same flight. In practice, it's good for kids in the same family or school group who are sitting across the aisle from each other. I've used it for some of their other games

    • acomjean 2 hours ago ago

      one flight I was on had trivia which allowed multiplayer. We ended up with about 10 playing the game. I thought it was a good idea for a networked computer and captive audience.

    • bdamm 3 hours ago ago

      Some day we might fly on the same airplane!

  • s3p 4 hours ago ago

    I am so glad this made first page news on HN!!

    Years ago I remember flying with Delta and wondering why the delta bot could beat me in a handful of moves on EASY. Absolutely insane.

  • runarberg 6 minutes ago ago

    Icelandair’s chess engine was equally brutal (well maybe only slightly less brutal). I played a couple of rounds on medium difficulty only to realize I didn’t stand a chance. I played a few more on beginner, and still lost all my game by blundering some tactics to the engine. Just before landing in Iceland I manage to get one game to the endgame, where the bot finally starts feeling like a beginner (well an advanced beginner) and I got one victory in.

  • ccamrobertson 3 hours ago ago

    United sadly removed games from its in-flight entertainment so I can no longer trounce 6 year old Magnus.

  • JALTU 5 hours ago ago

    On the other hand, the poker apps encourage me to consider a career change. I regularly crush the "opposition" with my card-counting skills. World Series of Poker, I am all-in!!! ;-)

    • stevage 2 hours ago ago

      Card counting in poker?

      • brewdad an hour ago ago

        Gotta keep track of how many more cards you get in seven card stud.

    • LtdJorge an hour ago ago

      Do you mean Blackjack?

  • efitz 2 hours ago ago

    Someday a delta engineer will go fix the UI bug where the labels for the difficulty levels were inverted in order compared to the enums used by the chess engine.

  • hk1337 3 hours ago ago

    I had similar experiences playing the computer in Tzar: Burden of the Crown. It’s not chess but it is a strategy game.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzar%3A_The_Burden_of_the_Crow...

  • specproc 5 hours ago ago

    I used to fly a lot of Turkish, and their one's laughably bad. If anyone here works for Turkish Airlines, get yourself a better Chess bot.

    • Terretta an hour ago ago

      Turkish Airlines likes their passengers to feel smart.

    • tomjakubowski 2 hours ago ago

      Don't be surprised when you learn their so-called "chess bots" are actually people, lying hidden below the floor of the passenger cabin, moving pieces with the help of levers and magnets.

      • anematode an hour ago ago

        Sounds like a potential Amazon product.

  • gip 4 hours ago ago

    I played the bot (probably early 2025) and wasn't that impressed. I won 5-1 or something like it. I did win one or two local chess tournaments in the past but I'm really not an impressive chess player.

  • shen 3 hours ago ago

    The Air Canada bot is too easy on medium but hard is unplayable because the computer is too slow at making each move.

  • lspears 5 hours ago ago

    This is great